In the end I decided on a grand compromise... well, OK, I was at Costco and there was a giant box of York Peppermint patties which I LOVE, and I caved.
In my defense, I thought they would be foil wrapped like they used to be...
So, I got them home and opened the box to taste one... you know, just to make sure they weren't stale or anything (wink, wind, nudge, nudge) and discovered to my dismay that they now come wrapped in plastic like everything else. Sigh.
But anyhow, I decided that I'd put the peppermint patties, the two small bags of chocolate kisses and peanut butter cups that I'd bought the other day along with some leftover party favor type toys that I had from previous years all in a big box on the front porch with a "help yourself" sign and see what happened.
I figured that way I wouldn't traumatize the cats, but I wouldn't be being a Halloween Scrooge either.
CatMan thought this was hilarious. He assured me that the first kid would simply dump the entire box of stuff into their pillow case and that would be it.
Undaunted, I maintained faith that the children would approach the situation with grace and politely take just a few pieces each. Or I at least figured that their parents would encourage a moderate amount of restraint.
Sooooo... at around 9pm I decided things had probably wound down so I opened the door to peek...
You guessed it, the vultures had picked the thing clean!
And we're not talking about a trivial amount of candy here. All told there were probably about 250 pieces of candy and an equal number of things like glow in the dark teeth, plastic spider rings, Halloween bubbles etc.
I was blown away! I mean, I had even included about half a dozen things for babies like rubber ducks and pacifiers and every. single. thing. was taken! Even the pencils! Seriously?
Sigh.
I suppose I shouldn't draw any sweeping conclusions from this little experiment. I mean it could have been just one kid who spoiled it for all the rest - I'll never know. I guess that's the thing about greed - it just takes one or two people to ruin things for everybody else.
But on some level it just makes me sad. I dunno... what do you think? Are kids just like this when candy is involved? Is greed just a part of the human condition? Is this just a manifestation of our crazy materialistic society? I'd love to hear your take...
That is quite sad, but I suppose not very surprising when you consider the nature of the event. Kids go round to people's houses and get lots of candy, you put out a sign giving them permission to take as much as they like, and there's no adult there (if their parents are in the car) to see how much they take. There's nothing in the situation to suggest that restraint might be appropriate. I guess if you wanted to set up an experiment with maximum temptation for kids, this would be it. I'd still like to believe it wasn't the first kid who took the whole lot, though.
ReplyDeleteBlogger seems to have lost the comment I left on your previous post bewailing the 'no unwrapped candy' advice that means you can't give chocolate coated Brussels sprouts. For next year, here's an alternative that a friend of mine posted on facebook (that her mum did one year). When the kids say, "Trick or treat," reply, "Trick" and shoot them with a water pistol.
Ha! Chocolate covered Brussels sprouts, now THAT's a plan! I love the water pistol idea too, but sorta fear that there might be some reprisals! Now, my brain is churning on creating some sort of a dispenser that only doles out one piece of candy at a time. Hmmm....
DeleteI am sadly not surprised at all. I put out our bowl of crayons and stickers with a sign that said to take one thing of crayons and one thing of stickers. I taped 1 box of stickers and 1 of crayons to the paper. When I got home, my bowl was randomly in the grass, and the kids had even taken the treats TAPED to the paper (which I told my kids they could have). I'm just surprised our pumpkins weren't stolen like they have been in years past. I did bring our toy bats and spiders inside because I knew that had I left them out, they'd be snatched too.
ReplyDeleteFor me, this is a BIG reason why I don't like Halloween. It fuels greed. My oldest would grab more than his fair share when offered the bowl, and I stood there trying to say, "Just take one or two." When he asked why, I said that we need to leave some for other kids. And that turkey just said, "Oh, they still have enough." I was a bit floored since he tends to be a very generous guy/empathetic guy. I did make him put pieces back if he took many though. My youngest would only take one and when given more than one, he'd offer it to his brother. I hope he stays that way, but given how my older one is, I don't see that as likely.
And at least you know for next year that did your good deed and can be done lol!
Ha! Well, that's interesting. I figured the candy would all be taken, what surprised me was the other stuff. But if kids will do that with crayons and stickers... well I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
DeleteIt is disappointing, but not surprising. If you think about it, how many adults also would take advantage of free stuff when available. We'd like to think that we mature into perfectly moderated people, but human nature is human nature. We all get excited about the idea of something for nothing. When there are free things like pens, coupons or even candy, how many adults take more than one? Most I think, if no one is watching. However, this all changes when we reach the point in our life when we learn even if something is free, it can be a burden if we don't need it.
ReplyDeleteVery true. I wonder if there's some sort of psychology around the idea of things being free that gets people to take much more than they otherwise would. Hmmm... this is making me wish I was a psych major again and could do an experiment. In one group you'd put out a bowl of free candy and let people take as much as they wanted. In the other you'd give everyone a bag of tokens that they could exchange for candy and see if the act of having to "buy" the candy had any effect on how much they took. I'm betting the "free" group would take more.
DeleteOOooo I know there are SO many studies about this sort of stuff (some studies done through economics)...I'll see what I can find!
DeleteCan't wait to see what you find!
DeleteHere's one from a quick search: http://people.duke.edu/~dandan/Papers/PI/zerofree.pdf
DeleteHoly Moly! That might take me a while to weed through that one, but it looks interesting!
DeleteHmm..I'd like to think that people are not naturally greedy...but maybe we are all programmed to stock up in times of plenty, for when lean times come...so left to our own devices, we grab what we can. (Despite there being no lean times on the horizon!)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Live and Learn that it just becomes a burden after a while- stuff stuff stuff!
That's what I wonder as well... if we're biologically programmed to take more than we really want or need, or if it's cultural. I do know that with my cats the ones I have raised from kittens never overeat. You can give them as much food as you want and they'll just eat what they want and leave the rest.
DeleteBut the ones who spent any meaningful amount of time starving on the streets will just keep eating and eating and eating. I'm not sure if they're trying to put on fat for the lean times, or if food is just such a big source of comfort for them.
I'm not exactly sure how that relates to this situation, but it is interesting.
It does relate- I don't know if anyone has ever done a study to see if people who actually hoard stuff, i.e. have a psyichological problem with the acquisition of stuff, have experienced a traumatic loss of stuff previously in their life- I seem to recall a few Hoarders programmes where the person hoarding had had someone else throw away all of their stuff when they were kids, or lost everything in a fire. So the sense of loss triggers a panic mode, whereas those who have never felt a lack (like your home raised kittens) have never needed to stuff themselves in case there was no more food for a few days.
DeleteThis is not entirely related, but I thought of it because I was thinking about the power of the mind- a friend was telling me the story of one of her friends, who suffers with an eating disorder. She then suffered a head injury and memory loss- and the eating disorder was gone! She had now apparently regained both memory and eating disorder - but without the memory of whatever had triggered the eating disorder in the first place, her body was quite happy to eat normally.
I might have rambled a little (!)
I suppose, on the other hand, the taking of all of the stuff could be a learned behaviour that more is better, and that you DESERVE more things...
Sigh.
Fingers crossed Megyn finds some science to answer some of these behaviour questions!
OK... that is totally fascinating about the eating disorder head injury thing. Reminds me of the Carlos Castaneda thing about erasing your personal history.
DeleteHard to imagine that many kids in this society have been through traumatic deprivation of junk food and candy though... but perhaps a lack of genuine human connection is to blame.
Hah, indeed it's probably unlikely that they have ever roamed the street looking for junk food, so something else may be to blame! As you say, a lack of connection/empathy/understanding- although I do also remember seeing/hearing a programme about child development, and that there is a point where kids are naturally selfish, and can't really be expected to consider others- so really it is up to the parents to control the behaviour..
DeleteOK, now you're reminding me of a show I saw where they were working with chimps... I think... it may have been some other primate. Actually, come to think of it, maybe it was very young children! OK... that's hilarious that I can't remember if it was kids or chimps...
DeleteANYHOW, in the study they presented the subject with two different piles of candy, one big and one small, and they first asked the subject which pile they wanted to keep. Not surprisingly all of them chose the bigger pile. But then, they changed it and had a friend sitting nearby. And the subject had to choose which pile to give their friend and then they could keep the other pile. But somehow they weren't capable of making the distinction and still chose the bigger pile. So it was like they were hard wired to choose the bigger pile even if it meant that they themselves got less.
Actually, now that I think about it, I think maybe the study had both kids and chimps, and the kids could figure it out but the chimps couldn't.
Well, whatever... I guess it just shows that on some level we're hard wired for more, more, more!
There might of been a time that kids would actually take one or two of something but those days are long gone. I went Trick or Treating last night with my grandkids. (they are too little to let loose). We were all but run over by the bigger kids. The kids that are a little older i.e, 10, 11, and 12 year olds all but trampled the little toddlers. I noticed on the porches that had bowls they would scoop handfuls out.
ReplyDeleteI have lost all my enthusiasm for Halloween. It does foster greed and kids don't need all the candy either. I like your idea of offering both edible and non-edible treats but I would be curious if kids just grabbed and dumped stuff into their bags. I love the idea you included things for the little ones but did they actually go to little ones?
Honestly, I would rather Halloween morph into a holiday where people host parties. The kids could come in costume and make caramel apples and have pizza. No door to door collecting candy. I know that sounds very bah humbug but I don't think this current chaos is fun for the majority of adults or kids.
I'm thinking you're right about the grab and dump tactic, because I can't really image any other reason that the pacifiers would all have been taken!
DeleteI think the party idea makes the most sense. It is a shame though. I'm left to wonder what it would be like if the adults in the community came together and established some better guidelines - like how much candy you can give each kid, maximum size for treat collection containers (ie no pillow cases) etc. But I don't really see that happening any time soon.
Anyhow, I'm sorta thinking this will be my last Halloween. I suppose something could change my mind, but the way I feel about it this year it just doesn't seem like I'm doing a good thing for anyone.
I'm actually not surprised either. I had about 15 kids last night and i would bring the bowl with me to the door (i had things that were for younger kids and things like packs of gum for older kids) and a couple of kids grabbed more candy out of the bowl (that was IN MY HAND) while i was putting candy in the bags of their friends. this was after i had already put something in their own bags. Thankfully, i knew i wouldn't have many kids and didn't end up with a lot of candy left over (and didn't run out). My 14yo decided at the last minute that he and his friends were going out and i was amazed at the candy he came home with.full size bars, micro popcorn, etc. more candy then he will eat in a month.
ReplyDeleteHoly Moly! They grabbed candy from the bowl AFTER you'd already given them some?!? That's sorta mind boggling. I guess I shouldn't be so surprised. This is the gimmie, gimmie, gimmie society after all. Sigh.
DeleteThat's too bad, as I'm always looking for evidence that individual actors can perform well and admirably without oversight. I was rooting for the kids to just take a few.
ReplyDeleteI had some bad feelings about the kids last night, too, as we had an assortment but we get a lot of kids...so I could only give out one piece per kid. Almost all the kids were fine but there were a few who totally ignored me, and just grabbed a huge handful. The part that bugged me were parents who would just chuckle or laugh when their kid did this. It's a little thing and it shouldn't bother me, but, you know, I don't have a clear idea of how many kids are going to show up. I don't want to run out of candy just because some kid wants a handful of Reece's cups instead of one.
Oy! That used to happen to me all the time and it would piss me off. So, then I went out and got little treat bags and pre-filled them with a few pieces of candy and one or two party favor toys - that way I could just give out one treat bag each - but there's so much waste, and it took a lot of time to make up all of the bags.
DeleteARRRRRGGGHHH... What's wrong with people? And especially what's wrong with those parents who condone that sort of behavior? Sigh.
Yes. We are born greedy and selfish. We have to be taught otherwise--it doesn't come naturally. Frankly, I don't like being self-less. Ironically, the people I most admire are generous and kind and giving.
ReplyDeleteI only had about 25 kids last night as it was a miserably rainy night--maybe I live in a polite neighborhood (and most of the teens who came to my door know me, which helps) but most kids had parents close by and said "thank you". Sorry about your experience. I bet if you had a camera recording your experience, you would have noticed some kids politely taking only one or two pieces. Personally, I think if kids in a neighborhood are overwhelmingly greedy, trick-or-treating will self-implode. People will quit handing out candy.
Ha! Maybe that's why most of my neighbors don't participate anymore! But I'm sure you're right and that there were polite kids out there too... it just bums me out that the greedy ones ruin it for everybody else.
DeleteI'm not surprised it was all gone, but hopefully not by just a few kids though! (The fact that the baby stuff was taken does make me wonder)
ReplyDeleteI agree with earlier posters - maybe it has something to do with it being free. I know I eat more at work when people leave free food in the break room than days when I just eat from my lunch box. It's not because I'm hungrier, I just feel like I should take advantage of the free stuff for whatever reason?
Hmmmm... interesting. Now, I wonder if people would take things that they don't particularly want just because they're free. I know one time I was walking along a street and there was a bunch of stuff out front with a free sign on it. So I took some things home and it all sat in my garage for about 3 years until I finally hauled it off to the thrift store! That was a lesson learned!
DeleteDon't assume it was just the kids. I wouldn't put it past some adults to either tell the kids to take whatever they wanted, or to take it themselves. My philosophy about it is that if some kid takes a bunch at my house, they're just going to quit earlier, giving everyone else a chance at candy at someone else's house.
ReplyDeleteOK... scary thought about the adults either taking it themselves or encouraging the kids to do so, but that's an interesting theory that having more would cause kids to stop earlier. Not sure I'm convinced on that one though when you see them hauling around giant pillow cases full of candy!
DeleteI've seen adult trick or treaters (usually with no costume even) but I haven't seen an entirely full pillowcase of candy on Halloween.
DeleteHa! Well, "full" being a relative term. I'm not sure I could even lift a pillowcase that was completely full! But they're definitely carrying around WAY more candy than one human being ought to consume in an entire year!
DeleteI'm not sure when the greed thing kicks in. I've done both, hand out candy and leave a bowl out so I could take my children door to door. I've never had greedy children and always found candy still in the bowl. But it's been a few years since I lived where I had kids coming around for Halloween so I guess things have changed. It's a shame, but I think it's part of the culture today. I've seen more kids throwing tantrums in stores, including older kids, when told no to something. I guess they are so used to having whatever they want they haven't learned the world no and it's meaning?
ReplyDeleteI guess it's sorta to be expected when we live in a world of such excess. But I sure don't remember being given entire handfuls of candy at Halloween!
DeleteHa! Don't we sound like a bunch of old bitties? "kids today... what is the world coming to... back in my day..." Perhaps we just remember our own youth differently than it actually was? I dunno...
We were discussing this at work. My husband and I no longer participate due to zero Halloween traffic in our area the last two years, but for those that live in busier areas, some of what I heard was truly appalling. It sounds like the bulk of T or T'ers are teenagers now, and many are rude. My Mom said a kid reached right into her bowl and grabbed a huge handful of candy AFTER she'd given him a handful and was filling other bags. A 12 yr old neighbor girl looked at the handful of name brand treats my Mom put in her bag and said "WHATEVER". I heard very similar stories from my co-workers. Young parents showing up with bags to fill in addition to their kids... teenagers helping themselves after their bags had been filled, etc. And very few saying "thank you", which was pretty much the norm when I was a kid. It really breaks my heart. Our world has changed.
ReplyDeleteYup, I've experienced pretty much all of that. I used to just give out a piece or two to each kid, and you'd hear them muttering things like "is that all we get?" as they walked away. Then I tried giving out handfuls, but kids would just reach into the bowl and take more and more. So then I switched to treat bags because it gave me more control over it, but it's a lot of work to fill them all, and it's so much waste. And yes, I've had plenty of adults showing up with numerous "extra" bags. What's that about?
DeleteI suppose something could change my mind, but I really don't think I'll be participating next year. In a funny way it's sorta heartening to learn that this stuff is happening everywhere. Makes me feel like it's not just something about my neighborhood, it's the culture at large. Not sure that's really better in the large scheme of things, buy you know what I mean.