Friday, April 20, 2012

The Posh Bosch - Thoughts on my new Dishwasher

UPDATE... I've switched dishwasher detergents, and now I DO think this machine is a miracle worker! or maybe it's the detergent that works the miracles. Anyhow... take this all with a grain of salt and if you want to read about my detergent discovery, click here.

Now that I've had my new Bosch Ascenta dishwasher for nearly a month, I figured I'd do a little review and tell y'all what I think.


The short story is that... well, it's a dishwasher, not a miracle worker, but it is by far the best dishwasher that I have ever owned. Now, to put that statement in context, I have never owned a nice dishwasher before. I've always had the cheap variety with no disposer, you know, the kind that doesn't get your dishes clean and sounds like a cement mixer - so bear that in mind here.
First of all... there are several machines in the Ascenta line, and I opted for the cheapest. I believe the model number is SHE3AR52UC, in case you're curious. I didn't think that paying extra money for a few extra cycles made any sense, nor do I care whether the controls are exposed or not.

I got it at Best Buy and as luck would have it, it was on sale and they were having a free delivery and installation special, so the entire thing ended up costing me about $550 - that includes taxes, delivery and installation. Not a bad deal.


I chose this model because Consumer Reports just LOVED the Bosch, and in particular they loved the Ascenta.


So here are my thoughts...

First of all, the thing is gorgeous... I mean the stainless steel interior is really pretty. I realize this falls near the top of the ridiculous scale in terms of rating appliances, but still... it makes me smile every time I open it up.


One of the real selling points of Bosch dishwashers is that they are quiet, and this is definitely true. Now, this model is rated at 50 dBA, so it's not like you can't hear it or anything... but it's quieter than the furnace, and the noisiest part of the cycle is a little glugging sound when it drains. My house is very small with an open design, so this is a very nice feature. I think that some of the more expensive Bosch lines are even quieter.


Many of the reviews that I read complained that the Bosch had a smaller capacity than other dishwashers, and for the life of me, I really can't figure out what they're talking about. I'm sure some of this varies depending on the racks, but I seriously have a hard time filling the sucker up before I run out of dishes.

The racks are designed more for actual dishes rather than large bowls, pots & pans etc... but I haven't yet found anything that I couldn't make fit. And the little silverware cages have these nifty slots in them to keep the spoons from getting nested, which is totally WONDERFUL!


The other really nice feature is that it has a separate spray arm for the top shelf, so you can actually put pots, pans and bowls face down in the bottom shelf without blocking all of the water to the top shelf. This is a REALLY nice feature.


So... on to the important stuff... how does it clean? OK, so all new dishwashers claim that you don't have to pre-rinse dishes. Even the Kenmore that died made this claim, and I basically found it to be hogwash. But, being an open minded person I figured I'd give it a shot.


And much to my surprise, it actually does live up to this claim... with a few caveats.

First of all, it doesn't get the baked on stuff. I guess that's not terribly surprising. To be fair, I never would have dreamed of even putting this sort of thing into my old dishwasher in the first place, so I don't really have anything to compare it to.

But lasagna pans and other baked on stuff do require a bit of either pre or post scrubbing in order to clean off the baked on bits. But really it's more like a post cycle wipe than an actual scrubbing. Since I've entered "cheese probation" this has been less of an issue...


The other issue isn't so much with getting the dishes clean per se, it's with stuff getting re-deposited on the dishes. The first few times I ran the sucker I ended up with cat food and detergent residue stuck all over at least half of the dishes.

I've been running it on the automatic cycle, which "senses" how dirty the water is and determines how many rinses are necessary. So it could be that if I chose one of the other cycles (either normal or heavy) the problem might have been solved, but I never got that far. I'm also not using a rinse aid - which I will discuss later.


But I found that the residue problem was solved by simply doing a better job of scraping the dishes (like using a spatula rather than a spoon).

Now... to clarify, I don't actually have to scrape my dishes at all... but I am a card carrying member of the clean plate club... at OCD membership level, so I never leave anything meaningful on the plate.



CatMan, on the other hand... I have to scrape his dishes, as well as serving/storage containers. And with the cat food... well, I've found that it's easiest to just give those dishes a quick pre-rinse since I have to rinse the cans anyhow before putting them in the recycling. But scraping with a spatula worked there too.


This is how I generally leave my plates...
The other thing that helped was to simply use less detergent.  I've gotten the best results by using only a scant tablespoon per load - and I use the cheap stuff... no fancy enzymes or packets for me!


Now... on to the rinse aids. The manual says that you should always use Jet Dry or a similar rinse aid, and to be honest, this sort of rubs me the wrong way. I just don't like the idea of having to purchase yet another product, nor do I relish the idea of having god-knows-what-chemicals in the final rinse water.


So, I did some research, and here's what I discovered about rinse aids. They have basically three main components/purposes. First of all they generally have citric acid or some other acidic ingredient designed to keep hard water deposits from forming on the glasses. Do I care? no.


Secondly, they have alcohol, which is designed to help the dishes dry faster and more effectively. Eh... sort of nice, but really not worth worrying about in my opinion.


And finally, they contain a surfactant, which is essentially some sort of soap or other chemical designed to break the surface tension and make the water (as well as any food or detergent residue) sheet off of the dishes rather than getting re-deposited on them. This is probably the main reason that they recommend using a rinse aid, and why so many people report sub-par results without it.

Still, I'm not wild about the idea of ingesting said "surfactant" plus, I realize I'm splitting environmental hairs here, but I think that the impact of a tiny bit of pre-rinsing has got to be less than the impact of manufacturing and distributing the rinse aid... not to mention the waste water issue.


And speaking of environmental issues... the Bosch scores rather remarkably on that front. It only uses 2.7 gallons of water per load and the Energy Star label says that if you do 4 loads per week you'll only burn 279 kWh per year with an electric water heater, and even less if you have a gas water heater.

Those figures have done wonders for my environmental guilt, and have allowed me to use the thing to clean stuff like mixing bowls, serving dishes and pots that I normally would have done by hand. Maybe this is just rationalization, but I think ultimately it uses less energy to toss them in the dishwasher than to clean them by hand it it sure makes life a LOT easier!


And speaking of making life easier... I've never actually used the drying feature on a dishwasher before. This was partly to conserve energy, but I also had a few nasty melted plastic incidents which scared me off. But the Bosch turns this all on its head.

It doesn't actually have a heating element... the water is heated as it enters the machine sort of like an on-demand water heater. The stainless steel interior actually functions as a condensing plate in the drying process. When the washing and rinsing is complete the water condenses on the stainless steel walls where it trickles down and is ultimately pumped from the machine.


So the drying cycle uses no extra energy, and I've gotta say it's sort of life changing to be able to open the machine and put the dishes away immediately, rather than having to wait several hours for them to dry. It has all but done away with the piles of dishes in the sink because if I put the dishes away as soon as they're done, then the dirty ones can go straight into the dishwasher instead of ending up all over the kitchen.

The only other issue that I'll touch on here is the sanitize feature. I'm generally not overly concerned with issues like sanitizing things... I figure we're surrounded by germs and bacteria 24/7 anyhow, and the "clean world" fantasy is pretty much delusional.

But, recently Smoky developed a bit of feline acne, and everything I read says that this is generally caused by lingering bacteria on food and water dishes. Using the sanitize feature has totally cleared up his acne, so it's completely worth it! Plus, since I've started eating meat again, I do worry a bit more about bacteria on food prep items.


In some of the reviews that I read people had problems getting the water hot enough. Bosch's recommendation was to run the hot water in your kitchen sink until it got really hot before starting the machine. Ummm... pardon my saying this, but this would seem to negate any environmental benefit that the thing might convey!


I generally clean the cast iron and other hand washables right before running the machine so that sort of serves the same purpose, but I've run it several times without warming up the water first... and let me tell you, it takes FOREVER for the kitchen water to get hot in this house... and the dishes were still all hot and steamy at the end of the cycle.

So, all in all I am very happy with my new dishwasher. I just hope it lasts a good long time!





31 comments :

  1. Glad to hear your new dishwasher is working for you! And this review is helpful to me too, because if the reno goes well, I'll be getting a new dishwasher. It's a bummer to have to get one because my current one is only a few years old and works fine, but it doesn't fit back far enough and sticks out from the cabinets (lesson learned about checking dishwasher dimensions in advance! If I'm fixing all of the other issues in the kitchen I might as well fix that one too. Anywho, Bosch's have some of the smallest dimensions available so it's good to hear yours is working out.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Gosh... it never occurred to me to check the dimensions, I thought they were all the same size. Guess I lucked out! The other brand that Consumer Reports really liked was the Miele, but they were WAY more expensive.

      Delete
  2. I haz a jealous. If I had an entire brass band playing in my kitchen, I couldn't hear them if I were running my dishwasher at the time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I feelz yur pain. My old dishwasher was so loud that if I tried to run it at night it would literally wake me up!

      Delete
  3. I'm so glad you're enjoying the Bosch! I love the lack of a heating element; no more melted plastics, and no need to air dry to save $ :) And sooooo quiet.

    To update my previous complaints, I dug out my owner's manual and found out the amount of rinse aid dispensed is adjustable in the dispenser itself - who knew?!?! Apparently too much causes etching. I had NO idea. I cut the amount in half and my dishes look GREAT. I also found out how to remove the sprayer arms and was able to unclog the end holes, which were clogged with lime deposits from our well water. I cleaned the disposal filter while I was at it (I do that periodically anyway). MUCH happier with my Bosch!

    I've read that a lot of people run hot water before starting their d/w, but I use the timer so it will run overnight, when our electric demand meter is off peak. I've never had a problem with doing so. One morning I was up earlier than usual and the dishes were so hot I could barely touch them. Very impressive for a unit without a heating element!

    Thanks for updating - good to hear it's working well for you :)

    Misty

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Misty,

      That's all very interesting information! Your water must be REALLY hard if the spray arms were clogged with mineral deposits even while you're using the rinse aid! Seems like I read somewhere that you could run it empty with citric acid powder instead of detergent to keep everything running smooth... but maybe that was the washing machine? Hmm.... well, don't take my word for it, because I'd hate for you to damage your machine by following my advice, but it might be worth doing some research to see if that's a good idea or not.

      Delete
  4. Thanks for your review. The new dishwasher sounds wonderful! I hate my dishwasher, it's configured weird, nothing seems to fit in it right, it's loud, and to top it off it doesn't do a very good job of cleaning either. I guess that means I haz a jealous too ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well... I'm still figuring out the best way to load it. There are so many possibilities! I also read somewhere that you can buy different trays that are configured differently if you need to in order to make things fit right.

      Anyhow, it certainly isn't a miracle worker, but a vast improvement over what I've had before!

      Delete
  5. So, it can't deal with baked-on food, you have to scrape plates really thoroughly or you end up with residue, and there are still some things you have to do by hand. This sounds exactly like my experience with a dishwasher (I didn't want it - it was built into the kitchen in my last house), which totally failed to persuade me that I want one. I thought maybe it was because I didn't look after it properly, but no, your thorough review tells me that this is the best you can hope for from a dishwasher.

    I'll stick to handwashing, thanks! Though I have to admit, my kitchen is a lot like your 'more counter space' cartoon :D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ha! When my old dishwasher died, half of me thought it would just be easier to do them by hand. And if it weren't for my very sensitive skin, I might have "gone rogue" and done just that. But the scraping really isn't that big of a deal... it just takes a second, and then the dishes are gone & out of sight.

      I think that's actually the best benefit for me. When the installer came I cleared off the counter top so he could work, and I still haven't put the old dish drainer back in place. I'm actually only doing a fraction of the amount by hand that I had to do with the old machine, so I just toss a dish towel out on the counter when something needs to dry. Then when I put it away, I get the entire counter back!

      Reclaiming that counter space has been totally HUGE. Of course, I've seen pictures of your enormous kitchen, so that's probably not as big of a deal for you as it is for me, but it's made cooking SOOOOOO much easier!

      Still... it's just a dishwasher, not a miracle worker!

      Delete
    2. My main complaint about the dishwasher I had was that it didn't make my husband do the washing up. He kept going on at me to get one, but then when we had the thing, I still ended up doing the dishes! As you say, it's a machine not a miracle worker ;-)

      Delete
    3. LOL! I have the same complaint about my cats. If only they would do their own dishes!

      Delete
  6. You may want to consider vinegar as a rinse aid - it works well for me!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, vinegar would help with the hard water aspect of the rinse aid, but it wouldn't do anything for the drying or surfactant part. I suppose it might be worthwhile to keep hard water deposits from clogging the sprayers, but spots on my glasses haven't yet made it onto my list of things to worry about!

      Delete
    2. Yes, this was the comment I was going to make.

      Delete
    3. Well, I did try putting some vinegar in the rinse aid compartment, and to be honest, I didn't really notice any visible change in how the dishes looked. But it probably can't hurt, and would be a good idea in the long run to help prevent mineral deposits from gumming up the works.

      Delete
  7. Congrats on the awesome new machine! We had a fancy schmancy FisherPaykel machine (supposed to be comparable to the Basch) years ago and ADORED it. Silent running, awesome at cleaning and we truly loved it. I missed it so much after we moved.

    I've adjusted to life in the cheap dishwasher world, but someday, I just might prioritize a lovely machine once again!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I must admit, I'm feeling rather spoiled by it. Still, since the free delivery and installation only applied to the more expensive dishwashers, it actually ended up costing less than a cheap one would have! I love it when the stars align!

      Delete
  8. So THAT'S what those little utensil things are for! Now, I'll have to reattach mine and see if they help lol! Thanks for the review! I'm jealous of the SS interior. I can't wait to see how it stands up to hard water. We have crazy hard water here in AZ...after less than a year, we were having the dish shelves/thingies rusting (which, of course, aren't covered under warranty). UGH! Hopefully yours will stand up to the hard water!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow... you've got stainless steel that's rusting? I didn't think that was possible! I'm thinking that I might want to put some vinegar in the rinse aid thing as somebody suggested above. I could care less about spots on the glasses, but it would be nice to keep hard water deposits from adhering to important things...

      And I was baffled by the silverware things at first too... I thought maybe it was so you could put lids or whatever in there without them escaping, but then I actually watched some videos on YouTube on the best way to load the sucker and the mystery was solved! It actually does seem to help too. Such a simple solution!

      Delete
  9. Just wanted to mention that my 5-6 year old Bosch also has a ss interior, and we have extremely hard well water. I've had NO rusting or scaling in the machine, even with the mineral build up in the sprayer arms. Hope this helps.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I came across your blog while I was trying long-distance dishwasher consulting for my mother who is in need of a new dishwasher ASAP as her old one died. I noticed the discussion about hard water. We know hard water. What one repair man suggested to me years ago is to do the following about once a month: place a one cup glass measuring cup on the bottom rack, facing up. Fill it with vinegar. Run the dishwasher (either just like that, or full of dishes with detergent as well--this is what I usually do). This helps keep that water deposit under control.

    Nancy

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the comment Nancy. I've heard that idea for hard water too... actually since I switched to the Finish Powerball Tabs, I haven't had any problems at all. I do put vinegar in the rinse aid thing too. Anyhow, hope your mother finds a dishwasher she likes... gotta say that since I switched detergents I'm completely sold on this thing... it's amazing, I can even put casseroles with baked on cheese in there and they come out spotless with NO pre-rinsing. Who knew that the detergent could make such a HUGE difference!

      Delete
  11. So glad I found this post. I recently purchased the Bosch and was concerned about the lack of heating element. Your explanation has helped my understanding and changed my attitude toward the machine a bit. What I disagree with is the racks. I am not a fan of rack design. I am an older lady (54) and still have my stoneware that was the rage when I was purchasing dishes, ( BTW I still love it) and I find that the small racks on the bottom were designed for china which is much thinner. So I would have appreciated a more liberal design, or perhaps a choice of racks that could be purchased.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have some stoneware too and have found that even though it looks crowded in those little slots, it still gets clean just fine. I should add that I did finally switch to Finish Powerball Tabs and now I don't have to pre-rinse at all and everything comes out pretty much perfect.

      That being said, I do think that the different models come with different racks. My bottom rack looks like this:
      http://content.reviewed.com/products/12709/specs/6727/Bosch-bottomdrawer.jpg

      Anyhow, I did stumble on a video supposedly giving info on how to load it, but I'm not sure how helpful it is.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8ibae45Yw8

      Good luck with your dishwasher... I really do love mine!

      Delete
  12. This dishwasher is so quiet I have to lean my ear to it to be sure its running. I like that a lot. What I am utterly disappointed about, is that it produces it's own oily yellow goo and makes the inside of the dishwasher stink. It collects around the inside of the door at the bottom. Its done this since we first got it. I was sick for an extended period of time after having purchased it, and didn't have the opportunity to return it. I've taken it apart and cleaned it regularly, having to scrub it with dawn. This oily goo doesn't come off easily. We called a repair man. He couldn't figure out what is wrong. We rinse our dishes before putting them into the machine, but somehow, they come out dirtier than when they went in. Since we're stuck with this expensive washer,I run the dishes through it anyway, and clean them again when they come out...thinking one day the goo will disappear, but alas... Obviously, I wouldn't recommend this machine.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yikes! Mine's never done anything remotely like that. What detergent are you using? I use Finish Powerball tabs and white vinegar as a rinse aid and my dishes come out absolutely spotless - and I don't pre-rinse. I put really dirty stuff in there too like cat food dishes, lasagna pans, and stuff covered with eggs, olive oil etc.

      The detergent was really the key though, because when I just used a store brand powder I got terrible results. Maybe that's why Bosch recommends them... I dunno. Anyhow, you might try switching detergents and see if it makes any difference. Couldn't hurt.

      Delete
  13. Interesting and most informative. Thank you for sharing. I just purchased a Bosch and your blog answered many of my questions about how to get the best performance from it. Mine is a SHE3AR72UC which I know is not the exact same as yours but being a Ascenta series I think it is similar Just one major question, how is your Bosch performing to date? Any issues or problems. You purchased your Bosch in 2012, it is now 2016. Anything new to report? Thanks again.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, nothing new really, I still love it. I have stopped using vinegar as a rinse agent because I read somewhere that it can damage the machine. Not sure if that's true or not but it didn't seem worth taking the chance. And I haven't really noticed any difference - the dishes still come out spotless as long as I use the Finish powerball tabs - I don't bother with any rinse agent at all. I haven't actually tried the Cascade tabs, but they might work too - I just figure if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

      The only thing that is occasionally annoying is that it doesn't dry plastics completely. I don't actually use much in terms of plastic dishes, but the silverware container thingy is plastic and it is often drippy when you take it out to put the silverware away.

      Also - when you pull the upper rack out, the little spinny arm that cleans the dishes up there is always still full of water and it will drip all over the place. So I just have to remember that if I pull out the lower rack first, I have to empty it completely before I pull out the upper rack. Either that or I have to pull out the upper rack first and then gently bump the little spinny thing until all of the water runs out of it before I pull the lower one out.

      But it's still the very best dishwasher I've ever owned and I still do my little happy dance pretty much every time I use it! I hope you love yours as much as I love mine! :-)

      Delete
  14. Thanks for taking the time to respond, answer my questions and share your experiences. I won't really be able to enjoy it until it's delivered and installed by Sears in two weeks :( I first went with a Kenmore dishwasher but exchanged it when I all the great reviews on the Bosch(including my model), but with some of the mixed reviews, I was glad to run across your blog and experiences as it gives me a idea how to get the best use of it. Thanks for letting me know about the vinegar. I was about to try it and now won't as I hate to cause any damage to the machine. I take it you don't use any kind of rinse agent at all. The manufacturer recommends it but if you can live without it and get great results, I think I should be okay too. I have some cascade complete tabs left over from my old dishwasher. I figure I should finish those off before buying Finish Power Ball Tabs. I know Consumer Reports recommends these along the the Finish Power Ball Tabs as being the best. The problems you mention about the racks seem annoying but to be honest, the trade off of having way cleaner dishes and especially reliability and durability is by far the most important purchasing factor for me. I've read about people who had bosch dishwashers that lasted anywhere from 8-15 years Considering most people seem to run into problems within 1-5 years of using their dishwashers,I'd rather take my chances with Bosch.

    Great Blog By The Way And thanks again

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are most welcome! I think that the tabs are supposed to have the rinse agent built in? Maybe? That's my theory anyhow. And my rationalization is that while the rinse agent will be released in the final rinse because it's timed by the machine, whatever it is that dissolves in the tabs can't possibly be timed so accurately, so there's a good chance you're getting a real water only rinse - that's what I tell myself anyhow!

      I'm also pretty lazy about cleaning out the little trap thingy where the crud accumulates. I think if one did that, ahem, slightly more frequently than I do, there would be less chance of gunk getting re-deposited on the dishes.

      Anyhow, hope you enjoy your new dishwasher, and thanks for your kind words about my blog - randomness is my specialty! :-)

      Delete

I welcome your thoughts so please leave me a comment and I promise I will respond.

On older posts I've had to enable comment moderation to prevent spammers, so don't worry if your comment doesn't show up right away - unless you're just commenting for the sake of embedding a link, in which case I really wish you wouldn't waste your time or mine because I'll just delete it.

Thanks, and have a fabulous day!